I had an interesting discussion on Twitter the other night, prompted by this thought:
Why do companies trust their employees to answer a phone, but not to blog or get on Twitter?
It drew a flurry of responses – everything from online activities being permanently etched in Google and thereby carrying more risk, to companies just not “getting” that their employees are likely out there talking anyway, with or without permission. It’s the second part that stuck. (The actual answers to the above question are actually rather secondary at this point).
Once again, we’re at this place of what I’m affectionately calling the Social Media Stalemate.
There are piles of information out there now about the “why” of social media, and there are increasingly bold and prominent examples of the how, from our favorites like Dell and Comcast and Zappos to all of the companies that Peter Kim has been copiously collecting here. I’m just about done with the argument that what we need is more “examples”. We have examples, what we seem to collectively lack is the stones to execute and try stuff for ourselves (there, I said it).
So this brings me here. What happens when we’re a bit of an impasse? When we’ve outlined examples, talked until we’re blue in the face about the benefits of participating in social media and pointed out the risks of ignoring it, and yet our company or client refuses to hear?
You probably know by now that I’m a proponent of doing things in baby steps, and that complete revolution is often impossible and sometimes even unwise in the face of business. So no, to those of you that may be preparing to launch into a comment storm about social media’s overhype, I’m not suggesting that we jettison everything old in favor of everything new. But doing nothing at all, digging in your heels and refusing to see what’s in front of you? That’s a tough nut to crack.
I’m all for education and teaching and learning and gradual sea change. But even I have to admit that I shake my head at some of the stale rationale I keep hearing to justify resisting the things that are so obviously changing the face of business and media as we know them, even in small ways. And I grow even more confused when what I hear as justification are things like “it’s risky” or “we don’t know if it will work” or “companies are afraid of the unknown”. I have yet to execute any substantially successful communications, marketing, community outreach, fundraising, or customer service initiative in my career that came with a guarantee of success, whether or not it had precedent.
This isn’t fishbowl validation anymore, folks. I’m not trying to preach to the converted or play kumbaya, nor am I trying to assert that social media is the end-all (and I’ve written many times about why it isn’t). Social media didn’t create the mistrust or the detractors or the risks or the issues at hand, it’s just putting them in plain sight, and putting companies in the uncomfortable (or enlightening) position to respond.
So I’m asking you. Can persistence in teaching and education pay off, and is eternal patience the only prescription (besides more cowbell)?
How much analysis and risk evaluation is enough before action is imperative?
And when all else fails, when (and HOW) do you cut bait, either as a company or an adviser? Is there a time when you as the social media champion are forced to choose your company or your cause?
I don’t have all the answers here, far from it. But I’m wondering if any of you are thinking about this like I am. Help me out?
I’m not sure if you’re getting the same response, but here at Axiom the only clients that have taken the “baby steps” are non-profits because they have nothing to lose. I’m just a bit perturbed that we will clearly show our budgeted clients that people are talking about them on Twitter NEGATIVELY and they still don’t engage (jump on fully); rather, they stay behind closed doors and will choose to respond. A lot of clients will look at the number of influencers attached to the complaint and think it’s equivalent to only an eskimo in an igloo. Well, we’ll do our best!
Tim Otiss last blog post..The Axiom Phone Booth Has Arrived
I’m not sure if you’re getting the same response, but here at Axiom the only clients that have taken the “baby steps” are non-profits because they have nothing to lose. I’m just a bit perturbed that we will clearly show our budgeted clients that people are talking about them on Twitter NEGATIVELY and they still don’t engage (jump on fully); rather, they stay behind closed doors and will choose to respond. A lot of clients will look at the number of influencers attached to the complaint and think it’s equivalent to only an eskimo in an igloo. Well, we’ll do our best!
Tim Otiss last blog post..The Axiom Phone Booth Has Arrived
Excellent point, one I’ve been yelling at the top of the my lungs for months now, particularly as it relates to internal communications at companies. The slow rate of uptake by most companies on external social media is only rivaled by the same slow rate of uptake when it comes to using SM when communicating internally.
How many more examples of excellent SM usage and ROI are needed before we get past the stalemate you describe and find the tipping point? As I heard someone on Twitter say today, let’s get past trying to build consensus and simply be OK with consent. Waiting until the whole leadership team is comfortable and on board leaves the company exposed and shut out of conversations going on about their brand.
Hopefully SM will move from being a nice-to-have to a must-do in the near future. This business of sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will all pass as a fad only erodes the brand’s reputation, externally and internally, something even a boatload of social media will have a hard time undoing after the fact.
Jason Anthoines last blog post..Time Out! Regular Employee Meetings Keep Everyone on The Same Playing Field
Excellent point, one I’ve been yelling at the top of the my lungs for months now, particularly as it relates to internal communications at companies. The slow rate of uptake by most companies on external social media is only rivaled by the same slow rate of uptake when it comes to using SM when communicating internally.
How many more examples of excellent SM usage and ROI are needed before we get past the stalemate you describe and find the tipping point? As I heard someone on Twitter say today, let’s get past trying to build consensus and simply be OK with consent. Waiting until the whole leadership team is comfortable and on board leaves the company exposed and shut out of conversations going on about their brand.
Hopefully SM will move from being a nice-to-have to a must-do in the near future. This business of sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will all pass as a fad only erodes the brand’s reputation, externally and internally, something even a boatload of social media will have a hard time undoing after the fact.
Jason Anthoines last blog post..Time Out! Regular Employee Meetings Keep Everyone on The Same Playing Field
Unlike Will Ferrell and Chrisopher Walken, ‘more cowbell’ may not be the best prescription here. I think that it’s a fair statement to make that this bright new toy called ‘social media’ is not a one-size-fits-all curio. For that matter, there can really be no one way to know when one should start pulling back on ‘cow bell’ – especially since not everyone’s degree of comfort in social media is the same.
We should just be *watching* our client/company’s delight in ‘cow bell’ to best gauge next steps:
* More Cowbell
* Less Cowbell
* Bigger Cowbell
* Etc.
Which comes down to the point that we can throw out as many stats, figures out there to impress a company/client; but, until they believe it’s a good thing to do, they will NOT be clanging away with Will Ferrell.
So, yes, I believe patience and persitence will pay off…but if you’re not really looking for those signs that your company/client if diggin’ on the cow bell, you’ll lose some ground…and trust.
Can you imagine if they *HATE* cow bell (say it isn’t so!)…?
This is why I agree with Amber in her approach – the more ‘baby step’ you proceed, the less the pain when the client/company starts to get restless or start to look at you like you’re TRYING TO SELL EM’ SOMETHING.
Narciso Tovars last blog post..Narciso17: RT @wfaachannel8 Texas Instruments says it will cut 3,400 jobs because of deteriorating economic conditions http://tinyurl.com/bt7esv
Unlike Will Ferrell and Chrisopher Walken, ‘more cowbell’ may not be the best prescription here. I think that it’s a fair statement to make that this bright new toy called ‘social media’ is not a one-size-fits-all curio. For that matter, there can really be no one way to know when one should start pulling back on ‘cow bell’ – especially since not everyone’s degree of comfort in social media is the same.
We should just be *watching* our client/company’s delight in ‘cow bell’ to best gauge next steps:
* More Cowbell
* Less Cowbell
* Bigger Cowbell
* Etc.
Which comes down to the point that we can throw out as many stats, figures out there to impress a company/client; but, until they believe it’s a good thing to do, they will NOT be clanging away with Will Ferrell.
So, yes, I believe patience and persitence will pay off…but if you’re not really looking for those signs that your company/client if diggin’ on the cow bell, you’ll lose some ground…and trust.
Can you imagine if they *HATE* cow bell (say it isn’t so!)…?
This is why I agree with Amber in her approach – the more ‘baby step’ you proceed, the less the pain when the client/company starts to get restless or start to look at you like you’re TRYING TO SELL EM’ SOMETHING.
Narciso Tovars last blog post..Narciso17: RT @wfaachannel8 Texas Instruments says it will cut 3,400 jobs because of deteriorating economic conditions http://tinyurl.com/bt7esv
Amber,
This topic is so near and dear to me that I had to respond. Like you, I constantly hear why social media can’t or isn’t working from those that have never gotten involved. I have no problem with individuals and companies alike being cautious, however not examining some of the potential benefits seems shortsighted.
There is no real template or road map to follow. Sure there are some companies that have had success branding themselves successfully using social media platforms but for now they are the expception, not the norm. Those willing to take a chance after carefully outlining their game plan are the ones most likely to succeed if implemented properly.
So what should companies do?
I believe if your not happy with your current results, doing things as you always have, you might want to consider looking at alternative measures. As you stated in your blog, social media is not for everyone and is not a cure all.
In my opinion it’s time for companies to stop being so concerned about what might be said about them on these various sites. Instead, look at all the possibilites of connecting with potential ditractors, demonstrate that you care and want to help.
David Benjamins last blog post..Voices of Detroit In-depth conversations with entrepreneurs and community leaders who are leading the renaissance of Detroit
Amber,
This topic is so near and dear to me that I had to respond. Like you, I constantly hear why social media can’t or isn’t working from those that have never gotten involved. I have no problem with individuals and companies alike being cautious, however not examining some of the potential benefits seems shortsighted.
There is no real template or road map to follow. Sure there are some companies that have had success branding themselves successfully using social media platforms but for now they are the expception, not the norm. Those willing to take a chance after carefully outlining their game plan are the ones most likely to succeed if implemented properly.
So what should companies do?
I believe if your not happy with your current results, doing things as you always have, you might want to consider looking at alternative measures. As you stated in your blog, social media is not for everyone and is not a cure all.
In my opinion it’s time for companies to stop being so concerned about what might be said about them on these various sites. Instead, look at all the possibilites of connecting with potential ditractors, demonstrate that you care and want to help.
David Benjamins last blog post..Voices of Detroit In-depth conversations with entrepreneurs and community leaders who are leading the renaissance of Detroit
Seems to me more like an expression of passionate commitment to a possibility than a rant…
I’m one of the people who pointed to the risks, but I don’t believe that should stop anyone from doing anything that has such amazing potential. I just think you have to proceed wisely and with your eyes wide open.
Examples rarely open minds that already closed to an idea – you just get a flurry of “yeah buts”. Causing cultural change in companies is my area of expertise, but I find it hard to talk theoretically and in generalities when you want to discover anything new.
An idea – set up a call to brainstorm on one or more live situations with people of diverse perspectives. We all have our blind spots so perhaps a little collaborative thinking could be beneficial. If you do I would love to participate
I see the use of social media tools as key to causing much needed breakthroughs in communication and knowledge sharing, especially in large enterprises. Although I don’t work with companies on their interaction with the world, I am already experiencing resistance on the internal front.
Susan Mazzas last blog post..A Moment of Courage – Part I
Seems to me more like an expression of passionate commitment to a possibility than a rant…
I’m one of the people who pointed to the risks, but I don’t believe that should stop anyone from doing anything that has such amazing potential. I just think you have to proceed wisely and with your eyes wide open.
Examples rarely open minds that already closed to an idea – you just get a flurry of “yeah buts”. Causing cultural change in companies is my area of expertise, but I find it hard to talk theoretically and in generalities when you want to discover anything new.
An idea – set up a call to brainstorm on one or more live situations with people of diverse perspectives. We all have our blind spots so perhaps a little collaborative thinking could be beneficial. If you do I would love to participate
I see the use of social media tools as key to causing much needed breakthroughs in communication and knowledge sharing, especially in large enterprises. Although I don’t work with companies on their interaction with the world, I am already experiencing resistance on the internal front.
Susan Mazzas last blog post..A Moment of Courage – Part I
I worked with a company (name witheld to protect the guilty) who only wanted to “dabble” in social media. They didn’t want Customer Service, Tech Support, Sales, or HR to use social media at all.
The only thing they wanted to do with social media is setup some listening strategies (which we did), and figure out how to handle the most outrageous of brand detractors (via a reaction strategy). They weren’t interested in anyting else. Which is too bad because their competitors are doing great using Social media.
For them the impass is still the control. They feel it’s harder to control what the techs and agents say when they aren’t recording it (even though “the internt” is). Until people can see the direct correlation between online and phone activites in business and evolve in their thinking a bit I think this stalemate is going to continue for a bit longer.
Josh Peterss last blog post..20+ Social Media and Online Resources for Realtors
I worked with a company (name witheld to protect the guilty) who only wanted to “dabble” in social media. They didn’t want Customer Service, Tech Support, Sales, or HR to use social media at all.
The only thing they wanted to do with social media is setup some listening strategies (which we did), and figure out how to handle the most outrageous of brand detractors (via a reaction strategy). They weren’t interested in anyting else. Which is too bad because their competitors are doing great using Social media.
For them the impass is still the control. They feel it’s harder to control what the techs and agents say when they aren’t recording it (even though “the internt” is). Until people can see the direct correlation between online and phone activites in business and evolve in their thinking a bit I think this stalemate is going to continue for a bit longer.
Josh Peterss last blog post..20+ Social Media and Online Resources for Realtors
While it’s probably the easiest excuse, it’s one that still stands, I think – until businesses can see “true” ROI and not the negative witch-hunts that ill-advised tweets and comments can result in, we’ll continue to wait.
I’m a business owner. From a purely business point of view, I don’t see any real cases of social media having the same financial results that a targeted ad, marketing or PR campaign in the *real* world can muster.
What I do see is a social media consultant making a tweet about a city and being hauled over all sorts of coals for it. I see an advertisement that upset some moms result in it being pulled. I see *gurus* springing up all over the place selling nothing but snake oil.
But I don’t see physical financial returns.
So, as a business owner, I’m asking: “Why? Why bother?”
Until we can overcome the biting internally that does happen, we can never hope to expand externally, no matter how committed or focused good people like you and those in the comments are.
Just a thought…
Danny Browns last blog post..It’s Not All About The Blog
While it’s probably the easiest excuse, it’s one that still stands, I think – until businesses can see “true” ROI and not the negative witch-hunts that ill-advised tweets and comments can result in, we’ll continue to wait.
I’m a business owner. From a purely business point of view, I don’t see any real cases of social media having the same financial results that a targeted ad, marketing or PR campaign in the *real* world can muster.
What I do see is a social media consultant making a tweet about a city and being hauled over all sorts of coals for it. I see an advertisement that upset some moms result in it being pulled. I see *gurus* springing up all over the place selling nothing but snake oil.
But I don’t see physical financial returns.
So, as a business owner, I’m asking: “Why? Why bother?”
Until we can overcome the biting internally that does happen, we can never hope to expand externally, no matter how committed or focused good people like you and those in the comments are.
Just a thought…
Danny Browns last blog post..It’s Not All About The Blog
@Danny you raise an interesting point about not seeing the “financial returns” of social media. Are you talking direct revenue as a result of those efforts, like X Twitter presence resulted in Y amount of money? I actually think Dell is starting to quantify some of those numbers.
But I wonder if we’re expecting social media efforts to perform on the same basis as marketing “campaigns”? Those, to me, are two very different efforts. I personally tend to equate social media much more on the level of business development (or donor cultivation, in the non profit world), and equating returns in values, not revenues.
Perhaps that’s part of the issue? Our definitions of what we want out of social media efforts are disparate?
Amber,
One of the marketing classics which greatly affects my thinking to this day is “Crossing the Chasm” by Geoffrey Moore. In it, Moore describes the substantial challenges involved in moving a market from being dominated by visionaries and early adopters, to one in which the market spreads to the far more numerous early adopters. I believe that many, most, or even all, new technologies fall into Moore’s “chasm” for a time, and that that might well be where social media are at the moment.
The good news is that good ideas that deliver value do (usually, if not inevitably)”cross the chasm” eventually. I’ll leave it to Moore and others to suggest strategies for shortening, or enduring, the chasm itself. For me, I am content to continue my experimentation with promising technologies, and learning valuable lessons which will aid in wider deployment, when it comes. I believe that the patient and gradual accumulation of successes, and proof cases, contributes to the sometimes slow journey across the chasm, even when the pace of such accumulation does little to relieve the agita of many visionaries (and impatient venture capitalists).
Do what is in front of you to do, and have faith in your instincts. As the saying goes, “This too shall pass”.
Congratulations on the new role with Radian!
Mike
Amber,
One of the marketing classics which greatly affects my thinking to this day is “Crossing the Chasm” by Geoffrey Moore. In it, Moore describes the substantial challenges involved in moving a market from being dominated by visionaries and early adopters, to one in which the market spreads to the far more numerous early adopters. I believe that many, most, or even all, new technologies fall into Moore’s “chasm” for a time, and that that might well be where social media are at the moment.
The good news is that good ideas that deliver value do (usually, if not inevitably)”cross the chasm” eventually. I’ll leave it to Moore and others to suggest strategies for shortening, or enduring, the chasm itself. For me, I am content to continue my experimentation with promising technologies, and learning valuable lessons which will aid in wider deployment, when it comes. I believe that the patient and gradual accumulation of successes, and proof cases, contributes to the sometimes slow journey across the chasm, even when the pace of such accumulation does little to relieve the agita of many visionaries (and impatient venture capitalists).
Do what is in front of you to do, and have faith in your instincts. As the saying goes, “This too shall pass”.
Congratulations on the new role with Radian!
Mike
I sort of agree with Danny’s comment regarding a true ROI for social media. Heck, some still argue that traditional communications alone doesn’t have a direct impact on the bottomline. That doesn’t mean there aren’t good metrics to measure performance/value however. There are plenty of good ones–many of which are employed by Radian6.
The other thought I had, and this originated from talking to a couple of senior executives at our firm, is the reason for the “stalemate” may be generational. The folks we are talking to about the potential value in utilizing social media are almost always of a different generation. One of very tight, close to the vest communications. They see social media as exactly the opposite, that even though there is a risk associated with being blind to the commentary there is an even bigger risk by engaging in the conversation.
Not saying I agree with the latter point…just something I hear.
Chucks last blog post..Chief Marketing Officers Embrace ROI!
I sort of agree with Danny’s comment regarding a true ROI for social media. Heck, some still argue that traditional communications alone doesn’t have a direct impact on the bottomline. That doesn’t mean there aren’t good metrics to measure performance/value however. There are plenty of good ones–many of which are employed by Radian6.
The other thought I had, and this originated from talking to a couple of senior executives at our firm, is the reason for the “stalemate” may be generational. The folks we are talking to about the potential value in utilizing social media are almost always of a different generation. One of very tight, close to the vest communications. They see social media as exactly the opposite, that even though there is a risk associated with being blind to the commentary there is an even bigger risk by engaging in the conversation.
Not saying I agree with the latter point…just something I hear.
Chucks last blog post..Chief Marketing Officers Embrace ROI!
Great post. A lot of big companies have the idea that eliminating risk is a good idea, but fail to realize that 1) it can’t be done and 2) it can actually be more risky. I am reading Purple Cow (Seth Godin) right now and your post reminds me of many of the ideas he presents. While some companies try to eliminate risk by not stepping into social media, others that realize how things are changing will move ahead of them.
Survival of the fittest.
Drew Gneisers last blog post..The Axiom Phone Booth Has Arrived
Great post. A lot of big companies have the idea that eliminating risk is a good idea, but fail to realize that 1) it can’t be done and 2) it can actually be more risky. I am reading Purple Cow (Seth Godin) right now and your post reminds me of many of the ideas he presents. While some companies try to eliminate risk by not stepping into social media, others that realize how things are changing will move ahead of them.
Survival of the fittest.
Drew Gneisers last blog post..The Axiom Phone Booth Has Arrived
Why do companies trust their employees to answer a phone, but not to blog or get on Twitter?
Probably because there is only one person on the other end of a phone call and it is usually not being recorded. But the whole world is on the other end of twitter/blogs and it is harder to cover up a mistake.
The printed word traditionally goes through many approvals to ensure that there are no embarrassing mistakes. If individuals are twittering and blogging without having it go through various approvals first, the risk of mistakes getting out there is higher.
The benefits are there, for sure. The repercussions of not getting involved in social media are great too. But that doesn’t make the risks involved in social media go away. Not all corporations can get past that. But more will have to. We need to find ways to help them manage that risk.
Annie @ PhD in Parentings last blog post..When a mother breastfeeds she is protecting her child from herself
Why do companies trust their employees to answer a phone, but not to blog or get on Twitter?
Probably because there is only one person on the other end of a phone call and it is usually not being recorded. But the whole world is on the other end of twitter/blogs and it is harder to cover up a mistake.
The printed word traditionally goes through many approvals to ensure that there are no embarrassing mistakes. If individuals are twittering and blogging without having it go through various approvals first, the risk of mistakes getting out there is higher.
The benefits are there, for sure. The repercussions of not getting involved in social media are great too. But that doesn’t make the risks involved in social media go away. Not all corporations can get past that. But more will have to. We need to find ways to help them manage that risk.
Annie @ PhD in Parentings last blog post..When a mother breastfeeds she is protecting her child from herself
@ Amber.
Hmm, my previous response didn’t post – hey ho.
I hear you, and yes, we know they are different models and need to be looked at that way.
Yet to most business owners who have stakeholders and sponsors to answer to, sadly value is a dirty word compared to revenue.
That’s what we have to overcome.
Danny Browns last blog post..Egos and Being Remarkable
@ Amber.
Hmm, my previous response didn’t post – hey ho.
I hear you, and yes, we know they are different models and need to be looked at that way.
Yet to most business owners who have stakeholders and sponsors to answer to, sadly value is a dirty word compared to revenue.
That’s what we have to overcome.
Danny Browns last blog post..Egos and Being Remarkable
Hey Amber,
Great post. Perhaps there is a deeper cultural reason why some companies are nervous about entering the social media landscape. Partially, the economy isn’t helping. These days, any little mistake could cost a job. Second, say or do something wrong, could lead to unknown legal ramifications. Granted, there are examples of social media being put to good use, but those that are tiptoeing into this world are extra nervous because of a potentially wrong step. Perhaps the greatest reason of all, substantiating investment. Businesses are taking a hard look internally at their pocket books. We can argue about the necessity that brand should participate. However, if there is no money to support entry into social media for the long haul, then what happens if they have to cut those activities to make sure the business survives?
Just like you, I don’t have all the answers, but businesses are having to make tough choices to save fiscal resources or file bankruptcy protection, or just vanish completely.
Miguels last blog post..Guitar Hero and Rock Band: A Musician’s Perspective
Hey Amber,
Great post. Perhaps there is a deeper cultural reason why some companies are nervous about entering the social media landscape. Partially, the economy isn’t helping. These days, any little mistake could cost a job. Second, say or do something wrong, could lead to unknown legal ramifications. Granted, there are examples of social media being put to good use, but those that are tiptoeing into this world are extra nervous because of a potentially wrong step. Perhaps the greatest reason of all, substantiating investment. Businesses are taking a hard look internally at their pocket books. We can argue about the necessity that brand should participate. However, if there is no money to support entry into social media for the long haul, then what happens if they have to cut those activities to make sure the business survives?
Just like you, I don’t have all the answers, but businesses are having to make tough choices to save fiscal resources or file bankruptcy protection, or just vanish completely.
Miguels last blog post..Guitar Hero and Rock Band: A Musician’s Perspective
To continue our Twitter conversation in more than 140…
I really like your response to @dannybrown. I feel the same way – I’m big on equating returns in values, not revenues.
Quick background for those that don’t know me: I’m a marketing/PR/communication-type in higher ed at a four-year public university. A few weeks ago we launched Cafe New Paltz, a Ning community that is for the students we’ve accepted to our university for this coming fall. One of the goals of our community is to help the super smart students we’ve accepted who aren’t sure if our university is the right fit for them, and help them figure it out. Honestly, the answer isn’t always that we’re the right fit. That’s what authenticity is all about.
I’ve been asked by “outsiders,” ironically not administrators within my own university, to show hard numbers for our ROI on this project. And here begins my struggle — I don’t want to put a dollar value on a prospective student who may turn into an actual student. Sure, it could be done if you’re a mathy type of person, which I’m not, but my friend Karlyn is and has given me some great guidance in this area).
Relationships=invaluable. Not to overuse the super cliched MasterCard tagline (even though I’m going to) — relationships are priceless in my opinion.
The long tail effect investing time in building relationships with these students we’ve accepted — whether or not they commit to coming here — is so much more than a dollar value can communicate. They talk to their friends, their family, their guidance counselors, etc. And those folks talk to their folks. Those students who commit to coming here, step foot on our campus later this summer feeling like they’re already part of a larger community, and likely have many fears relieved and questions answered.
How does saying “our ROI per student for this new Ning community is $32.50” (random number) help with anything? Sure, it’s harder to track the more abstract conversations that happen in the long tail, but that’s why there are loads of listening tools out there to help.
Off my soap box on my particular issue and back to your original questions– Can persistence in teaching and education pay off, and is eternal patience the only prescription ? I say yes to both. Without persistence (and a heavy dose of internal patience) it’s highly unlikely the non-believers will just magically do a 180 on their own and see the value. They need constant examples, case studies, best practices. That’s how I see my role in this space – learn all I can about what others are doing, share the success stories (even the not-so-successful ones) and keep the education process going.
To continue our Twitter conversation in more than 140…
I really like your response to @dannybrown. I feel the same way – I’m big on equating returns in values, not revenues.
Quick background for those that don’t know me: I’m a marketing/PR/communication-type in higher ed at a four-year public university. A few weeks ago we launched Cafe New Paltz, a Ning community that is for the students we’ve accepted to our university for this coming fall. One of the goals of our community is to help the super smart students we’ve accepted who aren’t sure if our university is the right fit for them, and help them figure it out. Honestly, the answer isn’t always that we’re the right fit. That’s what authenticity is all about.
I’ve been asked by “outsiders,” ironically not administrators within my own university, to show hard numbers for our ROI on this project. And here begins my struggle — I don’t want to put a dollar value on a prospective student who may turn into an actual student. Sure, it could be done if you’re a mathy type of person, which I’m not, but my friend Karlyn is and has given me some great guidance in this area).
Relationships=invaluable. Not to overuse the super cliched MasterCard tagline (even though I’m going to) — relationships are priceless in my opinion.
The long tail effect investing time in building relationships with these students we’ve accepted — whether or not they commit to coming here — is so much more than a dollar value can communicate. They talk to their friends, their family, their guidance counselors, etc. And those folks talk to their folks. Those students who commit to coming here, step foot on our campus later this summer feeling like they’re already part of a larger community, and likely have many fears relieved and questions answered.
How does saying “our ROI per student for this new Ning community is $32.50” (random number) help with anything? Sure, it’s harder to track the more abstract conversations that happen in the long tail, but that’s why there are loads of listening tools out there to help.
Off my soap box on my particular issue and back to your original questions– Can persistence in teaching and education pay off, and is eternal patience the only prescription ? I say yes to both. Without persistence (and a heavy dose of internal patience) it’s highly unlikely the non-believers will just magically do a 180 on their own and see the value. They need constant examples, case studies, best practices. That’s how I see my role in this space – learn all I can about what others are doing, share the success stories (even the not-so-successful ones) and keep the education process going.
One of the questions you pose is “How much analysis and risk evaluation is enough before action is imperative?” Depends on your background, right? Accountants are not not seen generally as “risk takers” so they may think like that. Others might just plough right on in. As a research firm, we look on twitter as an opportunity for a brand to listen to it’s customers. Unlike Google, which connects consumers to websites, twitter connects consumers to other consumers -and brands too. Whether a brand thinks it’s a good idea or not is not really the question. The fire is long started. Consumers are talking about your brand right now and there is an opportunity for you to not just listen but engage with them just like Marriott, Innocent Drinks and more.
One of the questions you pose is “How much analysis and risk evaluation is enough before action is imperative?” Depends on your background, right? Accountants are not not seen generally as “risk takers” so they may think like that. Others might just plough right on in. As a research firm, we look on twitter as an opportunity for a brand to listen to it’s customers. Unlike Google, which connects consumers to websites, twitter connects consumers to other consumers -and brands too. Whether a brand thinks it’s a good idea or not is not really the question. The fire is long started. Consumers are talking about your brand right now and there is an opportunity for you to not just listen but engage with them just like Marriott, Innocent Drinks and more.
I’m going with the first one. No, the second. Wait. What was the question? 🙂
Ok, serious posts like this one deserve a serious response. If the company doesn’t get it, and it’s not your company, simply adapt to their rules, while at the same time, writing your own. The company doesn’t own you, unless of course you’ve signed a contract that states otherwise.
If it is your company, and you don’t get it, why not? We live in an age wherein anyone can be anything online, and your presence, whether in Social Media or elsewhere, is defined by your employees, as well as your customers. Why aren’t you listening to them?
What I do know, is that when a policy of containment is enabled, most have the reaction of, “Don’t tell me what to do!!!” At which point, you’ll get either, unhappy employees, or those that will flaunt the rule, if not outright break it. Now, you can fire these guys, but they’re probably your most productive employees. Why not allow them the freedom to think for themselves?
Matches Malones last blog post..The 168 Project… Version 2.0.1
I’m going with the first one. No, the second. Wait. What was the question? 🙂
Ok, serious posts like this one deserve a serious response. If the company doesn’t get it, and it’s not your company, simply adapt to their rules, while at the same time, writing your own. The company doesn’t own you, unless of course you’ve signed a contract that states otherwise.
If it is your company, and you don’t get it, why not? We live in an age wherein anyone can be anything online, and your presence, whether in Social Media or elsewhere, is defined by your employees, as well as your customers. Why aren’t you listening to them?
What I do know, is that when a policy of containment is enabled, most have the reaction of, “Don’t tell me what to do!!!” At which point, you’ll get either, unhappy employees, or those that will flaunt the rule, if not outright break it. Now, you can fire these guys, but they’re probably your most productive employees. Why not allow them the freedom to think for themselves?
Matches Malones last blog post..The 168 Project… Version 2.0.1
Interesting points. But like all marketing tools, SM is not a one size fits all and not every business fits into the paradigm currently offered by SM. It’s one thing to say that you want to engage and yet another to tackle the legal ramifications and barriers. I think that the transition of the Obama effort in the social media space will be a great lesson for all. Activities that were allowable in the pre-administration period are not necessarily allowable by the White House. It’s going to be fascinating to see how they transcend the boundaries.
LizSs last blog post..Breast cancer risk and HRT – what matters most?
Interesting points. But like all marketing tools, SM is not a one size fits all and not every business fits into the paradigm currently offered by SM. It’s one thing to say that you want to engage and yet another to tackle the legal ramifications and barriers. I think that the transition of the Obama effort in the social media space will be a great lesson for all. Activities that were allowable in the pre-administration period are not necessarily allowable by the White House. It’s going to be fascinating to see how they transcend the boundaries.
LizSs last blog post..Breast cancer risk and HRT – what matters most?
Personally, I think its very important for every company to realise that Social Media is here to stay. There is no shying away from it. You can ban it, send internal notifications refraining anyone from talking of the company online but the fact of the matter is that there is no way to control it due to the numerous touch points with the Internet today.
I think what works best is policy that educates employees on the use of Social Media, best practices, etc. Talk about how knee-jerk reactions on blogs and Twitter can have a lasting impact on the company.
At Pinstorm, (disclaimer: I work there) we have an open policy towards blogging and the use of Twitter. New Pinstormers are actively introduced to these mediums and encouraged to participate in the community interwebs. This not only ensures greater learning but also improves visibility for the company.
Asfaq Tapias last blog post..How to approach a journalist
Personally, I think its very important for every company to realise that Social Media is here to stay. There is no shying away from it. You can ban it, send internal notifications refraining anyone from talking of the company online but the fact of the matter is that there is no way to control it due to the numerous touch points with the Internet today.
I think what works best is policy that educates employees on the use of Social Media, best practices, etc. Talk about how knee-jerk reactions on blogs and Twitter can have a lasting impact on the company.
At Pinstorm, (disclaimer: I work there) we have an open policy towards blogging and the use of Twitter. New Pinstormers are actively introduced to these mediums and encouraged to participate in the community interwebs. This not only ensures greater learning but also improves visibility for the company.
Asfaq Tapias last blog post..How to approach a journalist
Needed: Less cowbell. More stones.
Steve Woodruff @swoodruffs last blog post..Five in the Morning 012809
Needed: Less cowbell. More stones.
Steve Woodruff @swoodruffs last blog post..Five in the Morning 012809
It’s true, many companies are reluctant to just dive right in to social media, and can you blame them? The bulk of the stories that make it to the mainstream are negative – the Motrin fiasco is a case in point. If the bad was the only thing I was exposed to, then I’d feel pretty apprehensive too.
Josh touched on a really good point here when he talked about listening strategies.
As much as we’d like our clients to adopt blanket social media strategies this very minute, the reality is that some companies aren’t prepared to take the risk until they have more information.
The first step in implementing any social media type strategy (or any PR or marketing or comms strategy, for that matter) is to listen.
Instead of pleading with your clients to get going in social media, why not help your clients set up listening posts for what’s going on in the space first? Then, back off, and give them some time to listen for a while, so they can learn a bit more about what is going on out here.
Eventually, I think, they will start to see what some of the payoffs can be of actually getting involved.
Susan Murphys last blog post..What My Students Taught Me About Online Communities
It’s true, many companies are reluctant to just dive right in to social media, and can you blame them? The bulk of the stories that make it to the mainstream are negative – the Motrin fiasco is a case in point. If the bad was the only thing I was exposed to, then I’d feel pretty apprehensive too.
Josh touched on a really good point here when he talked about listening strategies.
As much as we’d like our clients to adopt blanket social media strategies this very minute, the reality is that some companies aren’t prepared to take the risk until they have more information.
The first step in implementing any social media type strategy (or any PR or marketing or comms strategy, for that matter) is to listen.
Instead of pleading with your clients to get going in social media, why not help your clients set up listening posts for what’s going on in the space first? Then, back off, and give them some time to listen for a while, so they can learn a bit more about what is going on out here.
Eventually, I think, they will start to see what some of the payoffs can be of actually getting involved.
Susan Murphys last blog post..What My Students Taught Me About Online Communities
Could a possible pathway for adopting social media tools and strategies be to implement first on the inside where it is safe and has the potential to cause tremendous breakthroughs in communication? This could especially help those who did not grow up with these tools and don’t have the time or inclination yet to explore them unless they seeing a here and now benefit. Experience is the best teacher.
Something else I have been thinking about…if you are not being listened to then perhaps you are not listening. What can’t we hear from those who don’t see the value yet? If we can’t fully get into “their” world we will never enroll them in ours.
Susan Mazzas last blog post..A Moment of Courage – Part I
Could a possible pathway for adopting social media tools and strategies be to implement first on the inside where it is safe and has the potential to cause tremendous breakthroughs in communication? This could especially help those who did not grow up with these tools and don’t have the time or inclination yet to explore them unless they seeing a here and now benefit. Experience is the best teacher.
Something else I have been thinking about…if you are not being listened to then perhaps you are not listening. What can’t we hear from those who don’t see the value yet? If we can’t fully get into “their” world we will never enroll them in ours.
Susan Mazzas last blog post..A Moment of Courage – Part I
@Susan I actually love this approach, and have kicked it around quite a bit. I think internal deployment of social media strategies can create breakthroughs. Folks see the potential in these tools, and then start seeing beyond the mechanics and discover the strategy. I’d love to hear more about companies who might be trying this tack.
@Amber I am working with a company on this right now. The most interesting thing for me so far has been the resistance of the internal tech guys. Part of it seems to be they don’t believe the tools measure up to the hype. But I think there is a lot more to it than that. Fortunately for me the CEO is already a believer and on January 1 launched his first internal blog. So we are off! Now to figure out how to befriend & enroll the tech guys…
Does anyone else have experience dealing with this?
Susan Mazzas last blog post..A Moment of Courage – Part I
@Amber I am working with a company on this right now. The most interesting thing for me so far has been the resistance of the internal tech guys. Part of it seems to be they don’t believe the tools measure up to the hype. But I think there is a lot more to it than that. Fortunately for me the CEO is already a believer and on January 1 launched his first internal blog. So we are off! Now to figure out how to befriend & enroll the tech guys…
Does anyone else have experience dealing with this?
Susan Mazzas last blog post..A Moment of Courage – Part I
Amber / Susan: Maybe another way to do this is to influence the influencer?
Every company has its departments with its set of groups in the departments. You could organically influence the influencers in those groups and soon you’ll have quite a few people prodding and ‘testing the waters’ with these tools..
Albeit gingerly at first, but soon with the right amount of encouragement, they could be quite a passionate force – simply because they tried it themselves and were not forced to use ‘try’ the tools. What do you think?
Asfaq Tapias last blog post..How to approach a journalist
Amber / Susan: Maybe another way to do this is to influence the influencer?
Every company has its departments with its set of groups in the departments. You could organically influence the influencers in those groups and soon you’ll have quite a few people prodding and ‘testing the waters’ with these tools..
Albeit gingerly at first, but soon with the right amount of encouragement, they could be quite a passionate force – simply because they tried it themselves and were not forced to use ‘try’ the tools. What do you think?
Asfaq Tapias last blog post..How to approach a journalist
Amber:
I’m going to come at this from a different angle, and will probably get jumped all over for it, but it’s a strongly held belief of mine so here goes.
It boils down to one word: lawsuits.
First some background on me–I’ve worked in a state legislature as an aide, and then worked at a state chamber of commerce. Anyone who has spent any time in either of these capacities can tell you that this is an enormous fear of businesses. And when you hear the stories of some of the lawsuits they’ve had to deal with, you quickly understand why. Like it or not, there are a certain number of employees out there who see litigation as a lottery, only with slightly better odds.
That social media advocates seem unwilling or unable to accept this explanation is a bit unbelievable to me. PR and legal often are at loggerheads, because they have different responsibilities to the company. Legal is slated with protecting the company from risk. PR is slated with reputation. Sometimes, they are on the same page, often they are not. Social media counselors owe it to their clients to understand–fully–the legal risk of proactively encouraging employees to go out there and comment *with the company’s blessing.* That is the key point. How can a company distance itself from a rouge employee when it’s gone on record as saying ‘sure, go out there and comment.’ The oft-cited examples that you’ve used above have tight company cultures, and Comcast and Dell have a limited group of employees engaging, not all. I’m not willing to bet my bottom dollar on it, but I doubt Comcast will allow its entire customer service group to respond to people on Twitter. Which is why I’ve made the argument that social media will have trouble scaling. Control is still an issue, even for those companies that are engaging. And the bigger the company, the bigger the litigation target.
I commented at length on a post Todd Defren had recently that touched on this topic. I’ve also been told, in the past when I’ve made this legal argument to “get over it.” Sorry, I have too much personal evidence to the contrary. I’ll be writing a post soon adding some other thoughts I have on this topic–I don’t fault companies for going ahead with an abundance of caution.
Jen
Amber:
I’m going to come at this from a different angle, and will probably get jumped all over for it, but it’s a strongly held belief of mine so here goes.
It boils down to one word: lawsuits.
First some background on me–I’ve worked in a state legislature as an aide, and then worked at a state chamber of commerce. Anyone who has spent any time in either of these capacities can tell you that this is an enormous fear of businesses. And when you hear the stories of some of the lawsuits they’ve had to deal with, you quickly understand why. Like it or not, there are a certain number of employees out there who see litigation as a lottery, only with slightly better odds.
That social media advocates seem unwilling or unable to accept this explanation is a bit unbelievable to me. PR and legal often are at loggerheads, because they have different responsibilities to the company. Legal is slated with protecting the company from risk. PR is slated with reputation. Sometimes, they are on the same page, often they are not. Social media counselors owe it to their clients to understand–fully–the legal risk of proactively encouraging employees to go out there and comment *with the company’s blessing.* That is the key point. How can a company distance itself from a rouge employee when it’s gone on record as saying ‘sure, go out there and comment.’ The oft-cited examples that you’ve used above have tight company cultures, and Comcast and Dell have a limited group of employees engaging, not all. I’m not willing to bet my bottom dollar on it, but I doubt Comcast will allow its entire customer service group to respond to people on Twitter. Which is why I’ve made the argument that social media will have trouble scaling. Control is still an issue, even for those companies that are engaging. And the bigger the company, the bigger the litigation target.
I commented at length on a post Todd Defren had recently that touched on this topic. I’ve also been told, in the past when I’ve made this legal argument to “get over it.” Sorry, I have too much personal evidence to the contrary. I’ll be writing a post soon adding some other thoughts I have on this topic–I don’t fault companies for going ahead with an abundance of caution.
Jen
I think experimenting internally first is absolutely the key to a company getting comfortable enough with social media to try it externally. I interviewed for a marketing position with a somewhat forward-thinking company once and when I talked about applying social media, I definitely saw looks of fear and doubt flash across the interviewers’ faces. But when I mentioned building an internal network on Ning or some such, they perked up noticeably. Suddenly, the President of the company could see the value in it even though he was not a marketer, not very young, etc.
This can work for large, medium and small companies. Almost every company can benefit from an internal application of online community. After all, isn’t it sooo much better than that obnoxios newsletter from HR you get in your inbox and then delete without ever reading it? The value to a company is not quantifiable, but it can help morale, company culture and cohesiveness tremendously. And happy employees = productive employees who do a good job and represent the company well.
If there’s one commonality among working people, it’s the propensity to bitch about your job/company. Doesn’t every company want to, ideally, be like Starbucks or Southwest, a company that is almost never complained about by its workers? A company like that not only attracts the best and brightest employees, but it also attracts customers who are, in all likelihood, working people themselves and want to patronize businesses that treat their employees well.
It’s kind of like cooking a new dish. I’m not a cook myself, but the advice I’ve heard from those that dabble in the culinary arts is that one should try a new recipe on one’s family or friends first before serving it at, say, a big dinner party. I think the same prescription could apply to companies getting into social media. Try it first with those closest to you: your employees, maybe your most loyal customers, etc. Then try it out on the world at large.
I think experimenting internally first is absolutely the key to a company getting comfortable enough with social media to try it externally. I interviewed for a marketing position with a somewhat forward-thinking company once and when I talked about applying social media, I definitely saw looks of fear and doubt flash across the interviewers’ faces. But when I mentioned building an internal network on Ning or some such, they perked up noticeably. Suddenly, the President of the company could see the value in it even though he was not a marketer, not very young, etc.
This can work for large, medium and small companies. Almost every company can benefit from an internal application of online community. After all, isn’t it sooo much better than that obnoxios newsletter from HR you get in your inbox and then delete without ever reading it? The value to a company is not quantifiable, but it can help morale, company culture and cohesiveness tremendously. And happy employees = productive employees who do a good job and represent the company well.
If there’s one commonality among working people, it’s the propensity to bitch about your job/company. Doesn’t every company want to, ideally, be like Starbucks or Southwest, a company that is almost never complained about by its workers? A company like that not only attracts the best and brightest employees, but it also attracts customers who are, in all likelihood, working people themselves and want to patronize businesses that treat their employees well.
It’s kind of like cooking a new dish. I’m not a cook myself, but the advice I’ve heard from those that dabble in the culinary arts is that one should try a new recipe on one’s family or friends first before serving it at, say, a big dinner party. I think the same prescription could apply to companies getting into social media. Try it first with those closest to you: your employees, maybe your most loyal customers, etc. Then try it out on the world at large.
Amber,
My best guess after sitting in and listening to a small company and their needs is having to evaluate ROI. Social media isn’t exactly a walk in the park, as you’ve said, and it takes a great deal of time, money and effort to get a good flow with great content going. That being said, particularly in an economy that isn’t exactly growing, it seems to me that companies pressed for resources aren’t willing to venture into this unknown field where direct ROI is hard to gauge.
Piotr Jakubowskis last blog post..The Good, The Bad and The Ugly #4
Amber,
My best guess after sitting in and listening to a small company and their needs is having to evaluate ROI. Social media isn’t exactly a walk in the park, as you’ve said, and it takes a great deal of time, money and effort to get a good flow with great content going. That being said, particularly in an economy that isn’t exactly growing, it seems to me that companies pressed for resources aren’t willing to venture into this unknown field where direct ROI is hard to gauge.
Piotr Jakubowskis last blog post..The Good, The Bad and The Ugly #4
@29
Jen, I think you make a valid point and one that my group struggled with during our inception. Anytime an employee communicates with someone outside of the company, and especially in a format that is both public and more permanent than a phone conversation (such as posting online) you run the risk of that communication going sour and then used as part of a litigation. This is why most companies exert the tight control over employee communication that you mention.
One thing is becoming readily apparent as social media tools have flourished, and it’s something that I first heard from Sean O’Driscoll when he was with Microsoft. Paraphrasing it here: it’s not a question of ‘if’, but ‘when’ the lawsuit will happen, so it’s better to not let the threat of it prevent you from doing what is right.
Another way to think about it is this way: your employees are going to communicate online anyway, and quite often identify themselves as employees even if they don’t supply their name. In fact, they are most likely doing so already. Rather than deny that this will happen, isn’t it better to give them some training on netiquette and the proper way to conduct themselves online as well as provide them resources internally if they are unsure about what to say (or whether they should say it) instead of pretending that you have control over them by refusing to allow any conversation?
I think that at some point you have to trust your employees to do the right thing- how many employees do you have that are already customer facing? Each one of these is already in a position to put your company at risk. If you’ve given them the trust to communicate with your customers already, why should you not trust them to communicate in other mediums? When you get down to brass tacks, social media is just another way of communicating- not much different than phones, email and chat at its heart.
I think the bigger issue with opening up an entire customer service department to working on a tool like twitter is a different kind of control problem: duplication of effort. Most CS work is done by case, and if you don’t know that someone else is working a case you can spin your wheels doing work that is being done by someone else. Multiply this by several times and you can see how inefficient the process becomes. In most CS groups you have a queue with customers waiting to be helped. This makes it easy to assign cases to agents as they are available and manage your workflow. Proactive support, while it has many advantages, can be difficult to manage as there is no “queue”. This is one of the real difficulties in scaling the process, especially when your available bandwidth is at a premium. It’s not the worst problem to have, but it is one you have to address to scale well.
@29
Jen, I think you make a valid point and one that my group struggled with during our inception. Anytime an employee communicates with someone outside of the company, and especially in a format that is both public and more permanent than a phone conversation (such as posting online) you run the risk of that communication going sour and then used as part of a litigation. This is why most companies exert the tight control over employee communication that you mention.
One thing is becoming readily apparent as social media tools have flourished, and it’s something that I first heard from Sean O’Driscoll when he was with Microsoft. Paraphrasing it here: it’s not a question of ‘if’, but ‘when’ the lawsuit will happen, so it’s better to not let the threat of it prevent you from doing what is right.
Another way to think about it is this way: your employees are going to communicate online anyway, and quite often identify themselves as employees even if they don’t supply their name. In fact, they are most likely doing so already. Rather than deny that this will happen, isn’t it better to give them some training on netiquette and the proper way to conduct themselves online as well as provide them resources internally if they are unsure about what to say (or whether they should say it) instead of pretending that you have control over them by refusing to allow any conversation?
I think that at some point you have to trust your employees to do the right thing- how many employees do you have that are already customer facing? Each one of these is already in a position to put your company at risk. If you’ve given them the trust to communicate with your customers already, why should you not trust them to communicate in other mediums? When you get down to brass tacks, social media is just another way of communicating- not much different than phones, email and chat at its heart.
I think the bigger issue with opening up an entire customer service department to working on a tool like twitter is a different kind of control problem: duplication of effort. Most CS work is done by case, and if you don’t know that someone else is working a case you can spin your wheels doing work that is being done by someone else. Multiply this by several times and you can see how inefficient the process becomes. In most CS groups you have a queue with customers waiting to be helped. This makes it easy to assign cases to agents as they are available and manage your workflow. Proactive support, while it has many advantages, can be difficult to manage as there is no “queue”. This is one of the real difficulties in scaling the process, especially when your available bandwidth is at a premium. It’s not the worst problem to have, but it is one you have to address to scale well.
I’ve been looking at three global professional services companies for a client presentation, and all three of them have had issues spread far and wide across the web in the last month – law suits, potential malpractice, potential involvement in fraud and scandal, you name it. For them to ignore the bad news being spread about them is clearly damaging, and I hope that they will realise it. The thing about social media is that those posts will remain there; if there is nothing to counter them, the reputations of the firms involved could be severely damaged.
I’ve been looking at three global professional services companies for a client presentation, and all three of them have had issues spread far and wide across the web in the last month – law suits, potential malpractice, potential involvement in fraud and scandal, you name it. For them to ignore the bad news being spread about them is clearly damaging, and I hope that they will realise it. The thing about social media is that those posts will remain there; if there is nothing to counter them, the reputations of the firms involved could be severely damaged.
I think what concerns small business owners the most about social media is the investment in time vs. the ROI.
Think of the flower shop with 4 employees or the insurance agency with 10 employees or even the engineering firm with 30 employees.
Who is committing the time in these organizations to participate in social media. Yes you can have a marketing director but many smaller firms do not (especially in this economy).
You can educate all you want but the fact is who handles the demands of real time communication social media participation requires (at a reasonable price no less).
Plus there still is the stigma of social media (much of which is deserved) regarding facebook, twitter or myspace.
They don’t see targeted applications for their business. They see useless widgets on facebook or inane comments on twitter.
Social media has to become more about their own website and having the conversation start there. It has to be more about what they are willing to share to start a conversation (just as it should have always been even before the internet).
Digg, Twitter, Facebook is a by product of the conversation and yes a means of discovery but is the future really about having profiles on a hundred social networks or having one profile on your website that is shared with motivated participants.
Create better tools for social media (and maybe rename it – do businesses really care about something that is social) and let the conversation start on their own website.
I think what concerns small business owners the most about social media is the investment in time vs. the ROI.
Think of the flower shop with 4 employees or the insurance agency with 10 employees or even the engineering firm with 30 employees.
Who is committing the time in these organizations to participate in social media. Yes you can have a marketing director but many smaller firms do not (especially in this economy).
You can educate all you want but the fact is who handles the demands of real time communication social media participation requires (at a reasonable price no less).
Plus there still is the stigma of social media (much of which is deserved) regarding facebook, twitter or myspace.
They don’t see targeted applications for their business. They see useless widgets on facebook or inane comments on twitter.
Social media has to become more about their own website and having the conversation start there. It has to be more about what they are willing to share to start a conversation (just as it should have always been even before the internet).
Digg, Twitter, Facebook is a by product of the conversation and yes a means of discovery but is the future really about having profiles on a hundred social networks or having one profile on your website that is shared with motivated participants.
Create better tools for social media (and maybe rename it – do businesses really care about something that is social) and let the conversation start on their own website.
I don’t consider myself a marketing person, though I thoroughly enjoy branding, publicity, and other initiatives. My POV is more from business operations leadership side. People in my profession have the ultimate responsibility of building out frameworks for organizations, so the rest of the teams could have something to attach to and grow.
Core point I want to make is that with anything new and cutting edge, it is important not to fear it, but rather look for ways to at least try it. No, don’t push entire company to get involved in SM, but grab a group of people you could trust to be your R&D in SM and give them the tools and guidelines to do it.
People are not dumb, if you hired properly, they will behave like adults. So just let them. Provide them with expectations and let them impress you with results. And if they make a genuine mistake or two… well that is fine too. Progress does not happen without some mistakes along the way.
Just my humble 2c.
Apolinaras “Apollo” Sinkeviciuss last blog post..Keeping entrepreneurs out of jail and an early grave
I don’t consider myself a marketing person, though I thoroughly enjoy branding, publicity, and other initiatives. My POV is more from business operations leadership side. People in my profession have the ultimate responsibility of building out frameworks for organizations, so the rest of the teams could have something to attach to and grow.
Core point I want to make is that with anything new and cutting edge, it is important not to fear it, but rather look for ways to at least try it. No, don’t push entire company to get involved in SM, but grab a group of people you could trust to be your R&D in SM and give them the tools and guidelines to do it.
People are not dumb, if you hired properly, they will behave like adults. So just let them. Provide them with expectations and let them impress you with results. And if they make a genuine mistake or two… well that is fine too. Progress does not happen without some mistakes along the way.
Just my humble 2c.
Apolinaras “Apollo” Sinkeviciuss last blog post..Keeping entrepreneurs out of jail and an early grave
@Geoff, you raise some very valid points. Part of the issue is “company blessing”–it’s far harder to defend in court if the company has officially sanctioned everyone to participate, than if they had no policy in place. Also, while a part of what I was getting at were lawsuits externally, it’s actually internal employee lawsuits that companies fear most. And Twitter is just the sort of informal banter that provides the climate for people to say things about other employees or the employer without even stopping to think about it. There are also all kinds of regulations surrounding publicly-held companies, and pharma companies have an obligation to report any adverse reactions the moment they are discovered. Companies can impress upon employees the seriousness of these rules and regulations, but in my experience there are always a handful of people who think “ah, it’s overblown. No one will know.” etc. and then do what they want (for an example of this, go to Chris Brogan’s blog and read about “Bob.”)
And, regarding trusting employees, that’s a great objective to have. But in a very large organization, it’s pretty unrealistic. There will always be great, wonderful, dedicated and smart employees. And there will be some who are angry to be there, for whatever reason. Or just bored. Or not care (have you seen the video of the Hertz employee who clocked out at left an airport rental counter, when she was a) the only employee there, and b) there was a line of 20+ people waiting?) Companies have every right to determine for themselves what the proper level of social media interaction is appropriate, and who should be permitted to interact–*if* they choose to do so at all.
@Nigel–I think there’s a big leap in assuming that those companies aren’t aware of what’s being said. If they are in the midst of litigation, however, they would be foolish to be commenting at this point in matters directly related to their cases. I’m not a lawyer, but I would think that any content coming from them could be construed as official statements.
@Quired You hit the nail on the head re: small/mid sized businesses and time commitment. Each company considering social media activity should do what amounts to a cost/benefit analysis.
Again, I’m a proponent of social media, and think it carries a lot of promise as a communications tool, but I do think that companies have a right to determine whether it’s right for them.
@Geoff, you raise some very valid points. Part of the issue is “company blessing”–it’s far harder to defend in court if the company has officially sanctioned everyone to participate, than if they had no policy in place. Also, while a part of what I was getting at were lawsuits externally, it’s actually internal employee lawsuits that companies fear most. And Twitter is just the sort of informal banter that provides the climate for people to say things about other employees or the employer without even stopping to think about it. There are also all kinds of regulations surrounding publicly-held companies, and pharma companies have an obligation to report any adverse reactions the moment they are discovered. Companies can impress upon employees the seriousness of these rules and regulations, but in my experience there are always a handful of people who think “ah, it’s overblown. No one will know.” etc. and then do what they want (for an example of this, go to Chris Brogan’s blog and read about “Bob.”)
And, regarding trusting employees, that’s a great objective to have. But in a very large organization, it’s pretty unrealistic. There will always be great, wonderful, dedicated and smart employees. And there will be some who are angry to be there, for whatever reason. Or just bored. Or not care (have you seen the video of the Hertz employee who clocked out at left an airport rental counter, when she was a) the only employee there, and b) there was a line of 20+ people waiting?) Companies have every right to determine for themselves what the proper level of social media interaction is appropriate, and who should be permitted to interact–*if* they choose to do so at all.
@Nigel–I think there’s a big leap in assuming that those companies aren’t aware of what’s being said. If they are in the midst of litigation, however, they would be foolish to be commenting at this point in matters directly related to their cases. I’m not a lawyer, but I would think that any content coming from them could be construed as official statements.
@Quired You hit the nail on the head re: small/mid sized businesses and time commitment. Each company considering social media activity should do what amounts to a cost/benefit analysis.
Again, I’m a proponent of social media, and think it carries a lot of promise as a communications tool, but I do think that companies have a right to determine whether it’s right for them.
@Jen
I think it’s safe to say that each business has to judge what’s appropriate, but to me social media is simply another method of communicating with your customers- just like the phone, or email, or chat. I think the risks are inherently the same. “Bob” ran into trouble because his company tried to shut him down- even though it seems that, had they embraced his efforts, they could have taken his actions and used it to strengthen their brand. I think Bob is a great example of my point- he’s going to be out there whether you like it or not, so do you help him help your business or do you pretend that he’ll just go away? Even if you let him go, he’ll still be there online speaking to your customer base- and by laying the hammer on him you’ve not only turned him against your company, but all of those that he is speaking with.
As to litigation being easier if the company gives its employees approval to communicate online, I think that the difference has to be made as to whether the company makes clear what is and is not appropriate. If an employee breaks established policy, then to me, it would be the same as if the employee went online without the blessing of the company. Again- it’s going to happen whether you like it or not, and regardless of the controls in place. I would think that if the company made clear what guidelines employees should use and made internal resources available to them (such as PR and legal contacts) then it would be difficult to litigate from the stance of the company supporting a rogue comment if that comment went against pre-established guidelines.
(I’m not a lawyer either, so take that with a grain of salt. I’m related to several lawyers though, so you’ve given me some good topics for dinner conversation at my next family gathering.)
A quick Google-fu found this link which seems to take a good stab at the topic:
http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=900005509201
As before, I think that Pandora’s box has been opened with regard to social media and corporations. Trying to stifle your employees will not only be futile, in my opinion, but it may actually stir up negative posts online by some of the same employees who feel their hands are tied. I think that one of the great fears that some companies have is that opening up access to all of their employees means that suddenly their entire workforce will be online and engaged in conversations. The reality is that the take rate for employees is likely to be small- whether it’s due to a lack of interest or a lack of time, blogging and tweeting and such just doesn’t appeal to everyone. Social media is by its very name, social. You’d be surprised at how many people prefer to be wallflowers online rather than ask someone else to dance.
@Jen
I think it’s safe to say that each business has to judge what’s appropriate, but to me social media is simply another method of communicating with your customers- just like the phone, or email, or chat. I think the risks are inherently the same. “Bob” ran into trouble because his company tried to shut him down- even though it seems that, had they embraced his efforts, they could have taken his actions and used it to strengthen their brand. I think Bob is a great example of my point- he’s going to be out there whether you like it or not, so do you help him help your business or do you pretend that he’ll just go away? Even if you let him go, he’ll still be there online speaking to your customer base- and by laying the hammer on him you’ve not only turned him against your company, but all of those that he is speaking with.
As to litigation being easier if the company gives its employees approval to communicate online, I think that the difference has to be made as to whether the company makes clear what is and is not appropriate. If an employee breaks established policy, then to me, it would be the same as if the employee went online without the blessing of the company. Again- it’s going to happen whether you like it or not, and regardless of the controls in place. I would think that if the company made clear what guidelines employees should use and made internal resources available to them (such as PR and legal contacts) then it would be difficult to litigate from the stance of the company supporting a rogue comment if that comment went against pre-established guidelines.
(I’m not a lawyer either, so take that with a grain of salt. I’m related to several lawyers though, so you’ve given me some good topics for dinner conversation at my next family gathering.)
A quick Google-fu found this link which seems to take a good stab at the topic:
http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=900005509201
As before, I think that Pandora’s box has been opened with regard to social media and corporations. Trying to stifle your employees will not only be futile, in my opinion, but it may actually stir up negative posts online by some of the same employees who feel their hands are tied. I think that one of the great fears that some companies have is that opening up access to all of their employees means that suddenly their entire workforce will be online and engaged in conversations. The reality is that the take rate for employees is likely to be small- whether it’s due to a lack of interest or a lack of time, blogging and tweeting and such just doesn’t appeal to everyone. Social media is by its very name, social. You’d be surprised at how many people prefer to be wallflowers online rather than ask someone else to dance.
This is in response to #34 (Quired).
I disagree with pretty much everything you said. There, I said it.
I disagree that conversations should start on the company’s site. A company can’t control that and it shouldn’t try to either. It should monitor and join in the conversation, sure, but not control it. Control is, realistically speaking, impossible anyway and any attempts at it are transparent and sometimes very off-putting.
I disagree that Facebook is just useless widgets and Twitter is just inane comments. Social media tools are tools and they can be used in a variety of ways. One can use a hammer to pound in a nail or bash someone over the head with it. That simple reality doesn’t negate the usefulness of the hammer.
As for the time and effort required: yes, small businesses have both in short supply. But I disagree that social media efforts must take an enormous amount of time. There’s a more significant time investment at the outset and then after that it can literally be 1-2 hours a day. Maybe even less, depending on the specific situation. The quality of the involvement and participation if what’s important, not the quantitiy.
As for the semantics (should it be called something other than social media?), it’s, well, semantics. Would it make you feel better to call it community building? Relationship management? If yes, then go ahead and use those terms. As for the “social” element, hey, guess what? Business already inherently has a social element and social ties affect how business is done. Why fight it?
This is in response to #34 (Quired).
I disagree with pretty much everything you said. There, I said it.
I disagree that conversations should start on the company’s site. A company can’t control that and it shouldn’t try to either. It should monitor and join in the conversation, sure, but not control it. Control is, realistically speaking, impossible anyway and any attempts at it are transparent and sometimes very off-putting.
I disagree that Facebook is just useless widgets and Twitter is just inane comments. Social media tools are tools and they can be used in a variety of ways. One can use a hammer to pound in a nail or bash someone over the head with it. That simple reality doesn’t negate the usefulness of the hammer.
As for the time and effort required: yes, small businesses have both in short supply. But I disagree that social media efforts must take an enormous amount of time. There’s a more significant time investment at the outset and then after that it can literally be 1-2 hours a day. Maybe even less, depending on the specific situation. The quality of the involvement and participation if what’s important, not the quantitiy.
As for the semantics (should it be called something other than social media?), it’s, well, semantics. Would it make you feel better to call it community building? Relationship management? If yes, then go ahead and use those terms. As for the “social” element, hey, guess what? Business already inherently has a social element and social ties affect how business is done. Why fight it?
What does it mean when one person comments on a fictitious-or-not character that Chris Brogan wrote about named “Bob” and enough people know the facts without asking for a reference?
Imagine if Chris didn’t blog about “Bob” and consider how the above exchange between Jen and Geoff would be different.
Just sayin’.
Ari Herzogs last blog post..Sextogenarian Women Come to Facebook
What does it mean when one person comments on a fictitious-or-not character that Chris Brogan wrote about named “Bob” and enough people know the facts without asking for a reference?
Imagine if Chris didn’t blog about “Bob” and consider how the above exchange between Jen and Geoff would be different.
Just sayin’.
Ari Herzogs last blog post..Sextogenarian Women Come to Facebook
@39
Actually, I had to search for it. I put “Chris Brogan Bob” into Google and it was the first hit. Apparently, I need to brush up on my Brogan since it was an interesting piece I would have otherwise missed.
🙂
@39
Actually, I had to search for it. I put “Chris Brogan Bob” into Google and it was the first hit. Apparently, I need to brush up on my Brogan since it was an interesting piece I would have otherwise missed.
🙂
@39 Ha! It’s interesting though, I didn’t think twice about saying Brogan/Bob. It was *such* a big deal when it hit. FWIW, I agree with my boss’s take on the whole thing: http://is.gd/7EhE
An interesting discussion, all the way around. I love that there are a few places left where people can disagree without becoming disagreeable. It has become increasingly rare!
Jen
It seems to me that there is a difference between letting your employees blog and interact with impunity, and using these things for business. It’s easy enough to set up a few trusted employees to be the “voice” of your company and much easier to trust that smaller number.
Then you expand, as it seems worthwhile or necessary, from that trusted base. Along with this, I’d suggest a policy of educating employees on your hopes for Social Media and your expectations or policies concerning your employees on the web. Obviously (particularly in a large company) you aren’t going to get complete control. The important thing is to have a policy, and to enforce it when you run across abuse.
One of the biggest turn-offs from my perspective is any sort of witch hunt or negative campaign that could send employees off on the very rants you hope to curtail.
As for return on investment…I can tell you that interaction with DELL folks in social media has earned ROI from my company.
We started small about five years back, but are now a multi-million dollar logistics firm. When possible, we are early adopters.
In our case, however, all current clients are government or military, and so there is no benefit for us in a large move toward social media. Instead, I take my business advantage from the information, support, and resources Social Media provide me and watch for opportunities to put it to use.
David Niall Wilsons last blog post..I Want the Fire Back…
@39 Ha! It’s interesting though, I didn’t think twice about saying Brogan/Bob. It was *such* a big deal when it hit. FWIW, I agree with my boss’s take on the whole thing: http://is.gd/7EhE
An interesting discussion, all the way around. I love that there are a few places left where people can disagree without becoming disagreeable. It has become increasingly rare!
Jen
It seems to me that there is a difference between letting your employees blog and interact with impunity, and using these things for business. It’s easy enough to set up a few trusted employees to be the “voice” of your company and much easier to trust that smaller number.
Then you expand, as it seems worthwhile or necessary, from that trusted base. Along with this, I’d suggest a policy of educating employees on your hopes for Social Media and your expectations or policies concerning your employees on the web. Obviously (particularly in a large company) you aren’t going to get complete control. The important thing is to have a policy, and to enforce it when you run across abuse.
One of the biggest turn-offs from my perspective is any sort of witch hunt or negative campaign that could send employees off on the very rants you hope to curtail.
As for return on investment…I can tell you that interaction with DELL folks in social media has earned ROI from my company.
We started small about five years back, but are now a multi-million dollar logistics firm. When possible, we are early adopters.
In our case, however, all current clients are government or military, and so there is no benefit for us in a large move toward social media. Instead, I take my business advantage from the information, support, and resources Social Media provide me and watch for opportunities to put it to use.
David Niall Wilsons last blog post..I Want the Fire Back…
Amber,
Normally I would agree with you (what, being so market and much more knowledgeable and all that), but I am having to take a contrarian view of sorts here.
See, I have come to realize that despite all descriptions to the contrary Twitter has become one of two things: an excellent (and cheap) PR and Marketing tool, or a passable social communication platform. I cannot foresee lots of our clients (or just about any entrepreneur I know) allowing anyone who wants to say something to become the PR or Marketing voice of the company just because they have access to a platform. I am not advocating silencing your employees, far from it, I am simply saying that as you do with your formal PR and Marketing programs, you must have a purpose, a vision, and rules for execution. If your employees can abide by them – free to communicate on behalf of the company.
Let me draw an analogy. I do customer service. Nothing turns me off the worse possible way than an employee who works in customer service and wants to differentiate between what they are and what they do. When you work customer service, you are the company servicing the customer – you are not an individual, nor can you separate the person from the job. If the customer is furious at the company, you cannot take it personal – it is against the company you represent. If you take it personal, you are not effective at your job. Same things apply to PR, Marketing, and just about anything else.
Allowing anyone who wants to get on twitter to do so on behalf of their company violates the idea of having rules, regulations, and a message to communicate for the company. If you choose to twitter about yourself, no problem – just don’t mention the company. If you want to become the voice of the company – then get trained, get the message and spread it.
(I know, twitter is used as a customer service tool as well as feedback tool – both very close to my heart… more on that later on my blog)
So, I am serious about spreading the value of using twitter across all functions in a company and endorse the use of it – withing the strategy you set for it. Anything else, it is either personal or out of place.
Thanks for a very good post, thought-provoking (and allow me to ramble for some time on this)
Esteban Kolskys last blog post..Surveys Done Right – Part 2 – Customer Satisfaction
Amber,
Normally I would agree with you (what, being so market and much more knowledgeable and all that), but I am having to take a contrarian view of sorts here.
See, I have come to realize that despite all descriptions to the contrary Twitter has become one of two things: an excellent (and cheap) PR and Marketing tool, or a passable social communication platform. I cannot foresee lots of our clients (or just about any entrepreneur I know) allowing anyone who wants to say something to become the PR or Marketing voice of the company just because they have access to a platform. I am not advocating silencing your employees, far from it, I am simply saying that as you do with your formal PR and Marketing programs, you must have a purpose, a vision, and rules for execution. If your employees can abide by them – free to communicate on behalf of the company.
Let me draw an analogy. I do customer service. Nothing turns me off the worse possible way than an employee who works in customer service and wants to differentiate between what they are and what they do. When you work customer service, you are the company servicing the customer – you are not an individual, nor can you separate the person from the job. If the customer is furious at the company, you cannot take it personal – it is against the company you represent. If you take it personal, you are not effective at your job. Same things apply to PR, Marketing, and just about anything else.
Allowing anyone who wants to get on twitter to do so on behalf of their company violates the idea of having rules, regulations, and a message to communicate for the company. If you choose to twitter about yourself, no problem – just don’t mention the company. If you want to become the voice of the company – then get trained, get the message and spread it.
(I know, twitter is used as a customer service tool as well as feedback tool – both very close to my heart… more on that later on my blog)
So, I am serious about spreading the value of using twitter across all functions in a company and endorse the use of it – withing the strategy you set for it. Anything else, it is either personal or out of place.
Thanks for a very good post, thought-provoking (and allow me to ramble for some time on this)
Esteban Kolskys last blog post..Surveys Done Right – Part 2 – Customer Satisfaction
Whether nonprofit or for-profit, staff SM usage sanctioned or not, it makes sense to understand the medium and your position in it and on it. Create a position paper, policy or guidelines. There is no one right way or wrong way to do social media – there’s only your way. Define what that is and be willing to regularly review that position and make necessary changes. Regardless of ROI or whether or not some groups still see SM as a joke, conversations are happening and some of them are probably about you. Pay attention or pay the consequences.
Whether nonprofit or for-profit, staff SM usage sanctioned or not, it makes sense to understand the medium and your position in it and on it. Create a position paper, policy or guidelines. There is no one right way or wrong way to do social media – there’s only your way. Define what that is and be willing to regularly review that position and make necessary changes. Regardless of ROI or whether or not some groups still see SM as a joke, conversations are happening and some of them are probably about you. Pay attention or pay the consequences.
your premise is incorrect, answering the phone is not the same as blogging as a representative of a company. Why?
1) Authority to speak e.g. mailroom intern not credible source for company strategy
2) Format, phone is not a lasting medium
3) Attribution, verbal does not have the veracity
among others. This is not to say that companies should or should not allow blogging, but it is not based on whether any employee picks up the phone.
your premise is incorrect, answering the phone is not the same as blogging as a representative of a company. Why?
1) Authority to speak e.g. mailroom intern not credible source for company strategy
2) Format, phone is not a lasting medium
3) Attribution, verbal does not have the veracity
among others. This is not to say that companies should or should not allow blogging, but it is not based on whether any employee picks up the phone.
@Albert:
1) Maybe not, but aren’t they going to talk anyway? To their friends, family, others? Why not instead treat everyone in the company as a potential communication node? They are, whether you “authorize” it or not.
2) I get that in principle, but the *effects* of a phone call can indeed be lasting – and documented. Just because it’s not online doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and can’t be an issue. To wit: how many times have you seen someone blog about a terrible experience they had with a CSR on the phone? That’s pretty darn lasting, even if the phone call wasn’t.
3) I totally and completely disagree with that statement.
I understand you’re being very literal about my statement, which is fair, since I said it. But the point is that the illusion of control in communication is just that. (See all of Geoff and Jen’s discussion above). I think it’s about time we start exploring the reality that communication in a company cannot be fully “controlled”, and focus instead on building our brands enough internally that employees – whether in the mailroom or otherwise – would be much less likely to misstep.
Control isn’t real. Risk mitigation is, but believing that online and offline communications can exist in silos is shortsighted.
One reason I see companies not allowing employees to blog or tweet is that there will be a record of what was typed. If something is said on the phone, its rarely recorded or noted. So if information was incorrect, it could be stated as a misunderstanding. Where if information is incorrect through blogging or tweeting, there is a record or verification of wrong information.
Choosing who should use SM in the company is a key factor for the sole fact that they will be representing the company out in the SM world.
One reason I see companies not allowing employees to blog or tweet is that there will be a record of what was typed. If something is said on the phone, its rarely recorded or noted. So if information was incorrect, it could be stated as a misunderstanding. Where if information is incorrect through blogging or tweeting, there is a record or verification of wrong information.
Choosing who should use SM in the company is a key factor for the sole fact that they will be representing the company out in the SM world.
I think it will be a slow, long journey: organisations do not like to lose control, and social media delegate control way down.
I believe that market forces will accomplish the transformation, though – as social media-savvy competitors take customers and employees from, and create better products than, those who try to lock down change and development.
I think it will be a slow, long journey: organisations do not like to lose control, and social media delegate control way down.
I believe that market forces will accomplish the transformation, though – as social media-savvy competitors take customers and employees from, and create better products than, those who try to lock down change and development.